1 Comments
6.05.2008
I have been incredibly busy lately with work and travel preparations, so I have not had the time to play around with this. I will however attempt to address all of the arguments made against mine.
DetroitSucks said...
Your blindingly ignorant liberal bullshit is astounding no matter how many times I am subjected to it's idiocy.
On thomas sugrue: I believe him to be a jew. Jewish neo-marxist intellectualist theory on social issues is well documented as being skewed by ideology rather than fact or common sense. If he is not a jew he is certainly of the jewish installed neo marxist and zionist school of thought prevalent within every university in this country.
Try Dr. Kevin Macdonald as an author of the source for my above statement on Jewish intellectualism in America.
For the sake of argument...
De-industrialization:
A total bullshit theory to try and explain urban decay. There are more White People living in the suburbs NOW who make a living because of the city center, than there were living in the city back then.
How come hundreds of thousands of people commute into Detroit to work? You don't think these people would enjoy living a few minutes from work? White people moved out when blacks moved in, not because we're racist, but because blacks ruined their neighborhoods.
Racial Discrimination in the Workplace:
Whitey's fault again eh? Blacks are over represented in auto unions and with affirmative action and equal opportunity in place this argument is hardly valid at this point in time. Racial discrimination in the work place, whether valid or not, hasn't been an issue in Detroit for at least 30 years.
Residential Segregation:
Blacks were forced to destroy their own communities because it was hard for them to get out of them? What kind of logic is that?
It sounds almost as if you're saying that it takes White people to make a community a decent place to live....sounds kind of racist to me.
Even assuming this was a valid issue, it certainly hasn't been for many years now.
Slavery:
There isn't a single black humanoid alive that was a victim of slavery. In fact I would say that there are millions of White americans living in this country who were worse off than slaves. Slaves had guaranteed housing, guaranteed food, schooling in some situations, certainly more than a lot of white americans were guaranteed.
Slavery is a liberal bullshit cop-out...every race has been enslaved...every race has enslaved.
Gentrification:
Ever heard of section 8? Gentrification my ass.
Weak education:
The schools weren't weak until blacks started running them.
1 in 3 black men end up in jail:
And this is because blacks are naturally criminals which is why whites have a hard time living around them.
practically zero adequate public transportation:
You're really reaching now. I've worked closely with the recipients of welfare and section 8 and every single one of them had at least one working automobile.
Crack Cocaine mandatory minimum sentencing:
So it's the justice system's fault for trying to enforce the law? Come on...give me a fucking break. The best place to be arrested for drugs is in an inner-city area because the sentences are short and the judges are lenient....ask any criminal and they'll tell you that. Once again it's the white man's fault for punishing criminal behavior. This is an absolutely ludicrous argument.
Detroitsucks:
On Thomas Sugrue: I don't know if he's Jewish and I don't particularly care. His book, The Origins of Urban Crisis does not have an agenda further then historical education. It is not politically motivated, and only sociologically motivated to the extent of unveiling the causes and effects of history on communities of people. Regarding the "jewish installed neo marxist and zionist school of thought..." If that was some attempt at understanding where my views come from- I don't particularly care for the way Zionism has played out in the creation of Israel, (and subsequent oppression of the Palestinians) nor do I care for Marxism. I like business, if done right and with due care. I think government can only do so much in helping communities like Detroit. Business, small and big alike, can lend an equally large hand through establishing work opportunities to those who need it by installing factories and other means of employment to disenfranchised communities. I also checked up on Dr. Kevin Macdonald. It appears that no one in academia will touch him with a ten foot pole, as his arguments are weak and his theses can barely make it past a peer review.
On De-industrialization: Not exactly bull-shit. It's still happening, and ALL neighborhoods are going under. Chrysler was bought out by a restructuring firm, and GM keeps announcing ever more job cuts. Michigan has the worst economy in the country because of this. In this state, one of every three jobs is tied to the auto industry. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it happened to the blacks first, now its happening to everybody, regardless of race.
On Racial Discrimination in the workplace: Blacks aren't over-represented in the work place with affirmative action and racial quotas. There is a hiring quota based on the region of south east Michigan, and while I'm not sure of the exact number, it's between 26 and 27%, which is representational of the racial blend of the region. Other regions, such as western and northern Michigan are represented in a similar manner. I was referring to racial discrimination back then less than now, but it still exists. Whether it be the glass ceiling blacks keep bumping their heads on or hiring practices, it exists.
On Residential Segregation: It still is a valid issue, although I did not explain it well enough. It was residential segregation through the means of redlining that eventually pushed whites north of 8 mile. Southeast Michigan is the most racially polarized region in the whole country for this reason. What has since happened is a form of apartheid through local governance. South East Michigan Council of Governments (SEMCOG) is a coalition between Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb county that oversees inter-county (regional) issues. The largest of these issues is public transportation and the roads, as both of these span multiple counties. Anyhow, Oakland has nine votes on the board to Wayne's three votes, yet their population differences are 1.2(ish) million people to 850,000(ish) people. This is not a 3 to 1 difference in population as how the voting system is structured, and so predominantly white Oakland county has much more to say about Detroit's place in the region then the city it self does. As they treat it more and more like a tumor, it gets worse and worse.
On Slavery: I enjoy your out dated pro-slavery John C. Calhoun style defense. Next I'd like to hear of the Christian need of caring over the savages. They were rarely taught to read, what schooling they received was through church, and I certainly would not call that schooling. It taught them to accept their place. Slavery, through the constant trading and acquiring of people as chattel destroyed the concept of family at the time. Every race has enslaved and been enslaved, from Africans to Europeans to Arabs and so on, but it is blacks that were the most widely distributed slaves in the history of the world. They are also the race to have most recently felt the negative repercussions of slavery, and they are still feeling it. 150 years ago is not long- blacks now are any where from two to six or so generations of family removed from abolition from 300+ years of slavery. And even after slavery, blacks did not receive any type of equal rights until 1964. This stuff takes time to level it self back out on to an even playing field.
On Gentrification: Detroit does not experience this so much as neighborhoods of New York, parts of California, Portland, and other cities. Gentrification does not only have to do with housing, but other aspects as well. There are many factors to a community besides just houses. These are communities that have survived just fine for many years, through which people have established their livelihoods. When the wealthy move in and start building upon it, it drives up property taxes and real estate, forcing those who have lived there to move out of the area due to sky rocketing costs associated with living there. Business owners are also effected, and forced to close down long owned businesses because of the related costs, and in come the 18 syllable Starbucks drinks and whatever other amenities are associated with the rich. And yes I have heard of Section 8. More on that further down.
On weak education: The schools became poor when money to fund them started leaving. They are using decades old text books with outdated information. They have class sizes that are too large, leaving educators with little ability to effectively manage the room. There are examples of predominantly black schools, such as the recently reported upon Ludington Magnet Middle School in Detroit, which has surpassed state averages in MEAP scores. Whites are now something of a minority at my previous high school, yet it is on US Weekly's top 100 schools in America, and top 10 in Michigan. This, as well as most other issues of race, is less about race, and more about economics and poverty.
1 in 3 black men end up in jail: Your explanation does not justify why whites can be criminals too. While the incarceration rate definitely shows a disparity between the amount of blacks versus the amount of whites sentenced for crimes, there are still whites committing these crimes too at an alarming rate. Crime is most often motivated by financial conditions. Theft does feed drug addiction; crack in the inner cities, and crystal meth in the far exburbs and rural communities- but it also feeds families. Violence occurs across all races, sure there are plenty of inner city murders, there are also plenty of white murders in the suburbs- Mark Unger in Huntington Woods murdering his wife, Christopher Dankovich stabbed his mom 111 times in Rochester, Stephen Grant dismembered his wife in Mt. Clemens. Not to mention the now countless school shootings that have plagued America by disgruntled suburban teenagers, the Oklahoma City bombing, crazy serial killers, and so on. Theft occurs with poverty. Murder occurs with sociopaths. Both are regardless of race. The purpose of leading statement is that crack sentencing laws are inherently racist, as no other drug is charged in a similar manner. Heroin, oxycontin, crystal meth, cocaine, and so on all get you, gram to gram, much less of a sentence then crack cocaine will. This explains a very large part of the racial disparity in America's prisons.
Inadequate Public Transportation: One out of three Detroit households does not own an automobile. Detroits suburbs are exponentially the fastest expanding in the country. These newly created and further expanding suburbs bring with them new ugly strip malls, but with them- new jobs. The SMART bus does not yet make it this far from Detroit, and even if it did, the ride would take several hours. A regional mass transit train system similar to Chicago's, Washington D.C.'s, or Minneapolis, would address this problem. The mayor of Southfield is currently running for Oakland County Executive with this goal in mind.
- On a side note. I work closely with recipients of welfare and section 8 housing as well. They win because they're able to get housing that enables them to get on their feet and get a job, if possible. There are definitely some individuals who abuse their situation, but for those who do, there are many that do not. We who work on section 8 construction projects usually get prevailing wage, so, if for even selfish reasons, there's not much to hate on here.
To Joe B: I honestly can't explain Oakland, I'm not familiar with what's happening on the west coast. I've only really studied rust belt cities; Gary is one of them though. The city was actually founded by United States Steal Corporation about 100 years ago. It shares a virtually identical history to Detroit in many aspects, especially regarding corporate downfall and pull out for cheaper labor which directly resulted in poverty. As far as the African countries you listed, both were under British colonial control until the 1960s, South Africa until apartheid ended in the 90s. Colonialism has been historically shown to leave complete poverty and violence in its wake everywhere it has been. Central America, South America, South East Asia, and Africa. America is an exception to this, unless you count all the poverty and violence that occurs here now. This country had large donors in colonial Europe, such as France, to aide their cause, and grease the wheels of freedom from England. About whites taking the lead. I've always considered a rising tide to lift all boats. If everybody in the world was made better off, regardless of race, violence and crime on a world wide scale would come to a minimum. In much of western Europe, where the income gap is smaller, and racial divisions are barely recognized, there is hardly the crime that exists in America.
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Andy B said... The detroitiscrap site is fantastic. I live in Mass, and there is only one small area in a city near me with a black population, and sure enough homes are boarded up, burnt down and crime is huge there.
It's almost funny to hear self-hating whites come up with reasons for the "urban decay" that follows blacks everywhere they go on the planet.
Almost makes me want to drag people like "Progressive Chef" into the blackest neighborhood I can find and let him spend a weekend with his friends.
To Andy B: All you've done is made assumptions of who I am with out offering a single valid argument. While I don't agree with the views of those above, they've at least offered arguments to contend on. You are probably wrong in any assumptions you have of me, other than that I'm white- but certainly not "self-hating." I feel pretty good about whatever I'm doing usually. I have friends in black neighborhoods. I'm also leaving to travel to one of the most impoverished regions of the world this weekend. You're a coward. Keep driving past that little town in Massachusetts, far from Detroit, and please, never get out of your car, ask around, and figure out why it is the way it is.
- Anonymous said...
I'm sure you love the all the diverse cultures so when you make excuses for blacks think about thes examples Sixty years ago jews emerged from concentration camps came to america and prospered within a generation. The same can be said for Cubans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Vietnamese. So what in the name of your esteemed job at a public university do you think is the reasons blacks have been stuck in the mud for 160 plus years? I would say in this country the problem is one of illegitamacy. Mr. social scientist, turn on the radio and listen to some jig music and you will find it is designed to facilitate their breeding. Illegitimacy seems like a good explanation until you look at Africa and then it seems that maybe blacks are just of a lower level. I mean blacks there have yet to embrace the technology of the wheel as witnessed by the women who carry jugs on their heads. by the way it then becomes the job of lackeys like yourself to polisdh the turd by explaining such backwardness as "culture and diversity." So go on with your bad self Progressive Chef. Serve up some more shit. Just stay out of Detroit lest you become an article on Detroit is Crap.com.
- Rick said...
And how many more whites are there than blacks?
I think the people who defend this city never actually live it. Try walking around even the 'safe' areas everyday and have blacks try to start fights with you, insult you, all when you don't even look at them. These are the stupidest people on earth. You just drive everywhere and avoid dealing with the people who actually live here. Try riding the fucking bus and listen to some ignorant black spew racist bullshit and not even the driver says anything to him. I live and know this city more than any of you, so you can go fuck yourselves. Defend the people that hate you all you want.
To Rick: My intention here was just to point out that whites consume welfare as well. Poverty happens to anyone, regardless of race, and it's something that really needs to be fixed. Whites can draw some tension from the inner city, but try being black and driving through the suburbs, getting pulled over for DWB, or eyed on in any store. It's just as bad. Once again some one has offered more assumptions against my self that have no basis what so ever. As much as I dislike our transportation system, I do ride the SMART bus. It cuts down on gas, I don't have to pay for parking anywhere (not that you really have to in Detroit anyhow), and I support the idea of public transportation. Nobody has ever spat on me or called me any names on or off the bus, and occasionally, I find some pretty interesting conversation. I also don't care if some blacks hate me based on my skin color, because I understand why. Hopefully, after many years of work, I can have an impact on healing this rift. You may call it white guilt, I just call it consideration for the people around me. If you live in and know the city so well, and are still completely disgusted with it, you should consider moving.
Jack Casey said...
It's as simple as this: name one place - a city, a country, anywhere, that is majority black or black controlled that isn't a cesspool of crime and poverty. Name one. Good luck.
Black culture is poisonous, rewarding and encouraging illiteracy, illegitimacy and crime. Until that's addressed, all the liberal platitudes in the world are only obfuscating reality.
To Jack Casey: Liberal platitudes obfuscating reality? What? Try the inherent liberal bias OF reality. Unfortunately there are not many big cities or countries I can list. Colonialism has directly affected all of Africa, where most Black countries are. Countries in the Caribbean that are predominantly black were used as staging grounds for United States slave trade- same argument applies. D.C. and Baltimore, while both have high crime (as do most large cities)- about 95% of it is contained to certain areas. Those are both prosperous, largely black cities. In metro Detroit; Southfield and Oak Park are both fine places to live.
DetroitSucks said...Chef...you're welcome for the most blog traffic you've ever had.
To Detroitsucks: Fo sho. Three weeks and six posts later, having never had a blog, guess I'm doing pretty well.
I guess the idea behind my arguments, is that it is not race that creates the problems you describe in blacks- but poverty. Poverty can be found in all races, and in all corners of the globe. It has always existed, and is the primary force that keeps very few people so rich. This is the problem we need to fix. For those of you that live in Detroit and hate it; why don't you try taking pride in your community and make an attempt at fixing some small part of it? Meals on Wheels, homeless shelters, and community gardens are great places to start. Big brother/sister programs are great too- if you get the youth of poverty before age takes them, you can really make a difference. If you get the right education or have that certain charisma, you can change policy through government, or influence economics through business. Black, white, Native American, and Hispanic communities are all in need of people to give a hand.
On that note, I won't have access to a computer for a couple of months, though I suppose even impoverished Latin American countries have internet cafes. Maybe I'll be able to get back to this before the end of August, but we'll see.
I am curious chef of what story you can cook up for the destruction of places like Gary, Indiana or Oakland, California; or better yet, Harare, Zimbabwe and Johannesburg, South Africa since they ceded their White rule to the savages. None of these places had any industries that moved out so what is the cause of their demise? They all, as Detroit, were once great safe cities to live in. Your political science and public administration background should have an answer.
And a correction for you here, your statement: "Whites had a thousand year head start in the Western world." is total bullshit!
Whites did not have a "head Start" WE TOOK THE LEAD!
And Anna and Dustin it is not your place to Re-invent the city, It worked fine once before and was great but has been re-invented to a third world cesspool.